【讨论】时间

pluiepoco

我认为时间是概念，不是物质

我们现在用的年月日小时分钟秒等等都是相对的，但这个标准不是固定的，我们的历法经过五百年就要修订，不然就不能更贴切地记录时间．

我曾经在外国论坛上与一些人辩论过，喜欢科学的人认为：时间是物质的，它代表物体与物体之间相对运动的速度和距离的长短．（长短也是概念，速度却建立在时间与距离之上，所以这种解释不对）

如果我没记错的话，用于描述宇宙的时间单位是　光年，既然年的标准是不确定的，概念的，那么光年还靠得住吗？

我认为，时间是一种概念．是不存在的．

紫外线

时间是不是不存在，我不知道，太深奥了．
但光年是天文学上表示距离的单位，表示光一年所走路程的长短。光的速度是每秒钟三十万公里，一天能走二百五十九亿二千万公里，这长度的三百六十五倍，就是一光年。
所以光年是一种用时间来表示距离的方法!而不是描述时间的单位．Ｖ＝ＳＴ

pluiepoco

我是科盲.具体原来的帖见:http://help.berberber.com/forum92/14343-time.html

宇宙生命的推算是根据光年的.所以我有个混淆,在宇宙计算上,很多自相矛盾的地方,这说明时间的厘定是概念化的.
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Time

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Time is conceptual, it's not true in logic.

Materially, time means ...second, minute, hour, day, month, year...
but actually when our ancestor invented time, He did not mean to tell a truth, but simply record what was going on at all! Then time is conceptual, as a rule of measurement on how fast the facts are going.

If we don't know what is time, it will not affect our ordinary life, nor our birth, death nor happiness.

Time is an Accuracy of Being.
>>>>>I would have a slightly different point of view...

Time has not been invented, it has been discovered. Which make a huge difference.
By that I mean that what is conceptual is how we use to name and count time. Not the time itself.

Here is an example: even if humans were not existing, the Sun would have a certain rotating velocity and the light a certain speed and so on. We would not be here to measure and record how fast it is but nevertheless the time and the speed would exist.

So time is not conceptual but is physic constitutive existing thing.
What is a human point of view is how to name it and how to measure and count it
>>>>>>>>Sun does not mean time, Earth does not mean Human.

Time is discovered? Then it must existed long before human came to being on the Earth?

So Time must by invented by human, it must be later than human being!

Time is consequence of thinking, but not outcome of facts.

Time is with human, if you define time with objects as the Sun, Planet, Moon, such physical or chemical facts, it is not true!

Time must be meaningful with human thinking.

Time is produced by the human!
>>>>>>>>Nope the univers exited before humans were born!!
And to have a universe you need material... and in the univers we live in material comes with 4 measures: lengths: up down and deep, and time

Then you have a space with objects and positions and movemements. believe me molecules did not wait for humans to exist and move!!

What is conceptual is how we named it and how we represent it to give it some meaning to us, not their existence.
>>>>>>One lifetime in Human being could be one second in universe.

Then you can see time is imaginary and conceptual, it's comparative, just as a lifetime of turtle is longer than that of human being, but same as a lifetime.

A second can be a minute, an hour, or day or endless time meaurement.

The universe comprises not only molecules but also celestial bodies, which is known as microcosmos or macrocosmos. In the humanocosmos, time we produced is by ...second, minute, hour, day, month, year... but time in macrocosmos could be measured by century or millennium or larger stretches, then time in microcosmos could be by ....(I don't know the norms in physicsm but it's tiny in human's opinion)...

You can figure out how time is joking, because a so-called lifetime of molecule is incomparable to that of human, let alone that of celestial body,

So a second (we hereby do use the humanmade time-beings to be easy understood) means more to an insect than to human, because insect's life is shorter than human, and in one second the insect would complete maybe 1/100000 portion of its life, so that second = many seconds of human.
Alikely, one year of human life could be 1/100 of his lifetime, but 1 year is tiny enough to be omitted as to celestial evolution.

Time is comparative, because human invented it to record their own history and being.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes you are not talking of the time itself but of the code humans built to represent it.
This is totally different.
But don't mess up these to ideas.
>>>>>>>>>>>phenomena reflect time's nature, that is imaginary, not an existing thing.
Time is applied to human originally, but not to insects or celestial bodies, though it's well-known that time is imagined longer than human's history.
What's time? Time is the 4th dimension of the universe, but till now, everybody is made in 3 dimensions. The imagined one is very useful to our life.

But we are 3D beings. We think in 4D. Do you agree?
>>>>>>>>>>No I don't agree at all

because if you think only three dimensions, then nothing would be moving.
To take again your example of insects, one was born at a given moment and it dies at another one.
If there were no time then it could not have a birth moment and then death moment. Which means it would not even exist! Or born and die at the same moment, which is a total non sense

Idem for multiple example in the everyday life, two planets smash one into the other one. They are both define in 3 dimensions. But to meet at a given moment on a given place they both need to be a the same place (defined in 3 dimensions) at the same moment!

The same for the molecules that build your body for example!

These few examples show that the time is not only a human point of view but comes with the universe
>>>>>>>>>>Then I got you! Human is 4D thinking animal, but according to science some animals cannot think in 4D, but 2D. Then how do you spell out their life or being?

Time is nonsense to them, but only to human. Time is artificial, think of that God knows no time in Bible.
>>>>>>>>Every single animal thinks in 4 dimensions!

Just ask a lion to catch a gazelle. The lion will run in order to meet the gazelle at a given point, that is to be at the same place at the same moment.

The lion does not name it time because it cannot even think of it or talk, but it uses it in his everyday life
>>>>>>>>>No you are wrong this time, some animals (no, but some organism, like microbes) do not move a bit all its life, how come it has sense of moment or time, then how can you describe its being relating to time
>>>>>>>>>>You just forgot something microbs are not animals
and they are moving, this is not volontary movement but they do move

Ans just like animals, they are built on a given moment and destroyed on another one... which means at least two moments exist. They don't know it because they don't think but two different moments means there is a time
>>>>>>>>>>>I think the differences you two are talking about amount to semantics. "Time" as defined by pluiepoco is like our yard stick. We in America use inches, foot, etc., while others use the metric system. "Time" as a human concept is just such a measuring system.

But "real time" consists only of revolutions of the earth, the earth revolving around the sun, etc. This is what in fact happens. The earth revolves. We are simply measuring the "time" it takes for the earth to make one revolution, for example, and calling it a day. Our "time" measurements aren't exact either, as is evident in leap years. We simply use measurements that are easily "translated" by the general population.

Without us here, the earth would simply revolve. "Time" would not exist. Revolutions of the earth would exist. "Time" is our own construct.
>>>>>>>>>>>Tell me how do u define logic?
Time is true in logic because it’s true in science
Besides time is not minutes and seconds
It’s measured by them, just like in length and mass
Time was discovered not invented, just because people managed to live without time knowledge doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect them,
People managed to live without fire and electricity and this didn’t mean they didn’t need it.
About the dimensions,
Who said they are 3, no, until now they are 4
But if you read Hawking book “The universe in A Nutshell”
You will figure out that without time, no theories will not hold,
And that there may be more than 4 dimensions.
I think u can find the book on Amazon.

Good luck to u
>>>>>>>>>>>>To Digital master

tiyz

我认为时间就是相对于空间的虚数
由物理公式
x^2+y^2+z^2-(ct)^2=a

pluiepoco

我认为,空间的本身是距离,也是概念化的东西.